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The Otherworld Project • View topic - Writing in Arden

Writing in Arden

Discussion of anything unrelated to the Project.
 
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Writing in Arden

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:09 am

(Since I can't post in development) (Please someone move this to the correct forum)

What time is it? It’s linguistics time! Again!

So I like to point out something that has not been tackled much at projects such as this. Writing systems and their evolution/progress across the world (writing systems are my favorite). In our case, Arden. So to start I like to address some stuff bothering me while I was lurking in the wiki.

Regarding Joriscian Scripts
As obviously seen most Outer Joriscian nations use the Tomislavic script, which is obviously based on the Greek/Elmiesian/Old Messenian uncials (because here on Earth the inventors of the script, st. Cyril and Methodius were using Greek). Only four uses the Glagolitic/ Vladykast script: Lacre, Terophan, Azophin and Rania. Tomislavic on the other hand is used by Agamar, Lutoborsk, Zemay, Domradevid Joriscia and the Rastovids. I don’t know about Kiy (it being a former Savamese colony and with Daeena ShelKevnu being a Rasheem which language uses Vladykast or Dabaic makes me confused). Anyway, what bothers me is the Tomislavic Script’s prevalence in Outer Joriscia, which is a giant steppe apart from Messenia, where Old Messenian (and its modern version Elmiesian) is (or was?) used. How did it reach from the far west to the far east? The name Tomislavic may suggest it’s invented by the Agamari historical figure (I guess?), which is confusing enough. Maybe during the Secote conquest these horsemen found the Old Messenian script and altered it to their own means, making Tomislavic? But taking note that Cyrillic and Glagolitic was developed together (I think) and Cyrillic got a considerable influence on the latter, Vladykast should probably emerge in the Secote Era (if through the “Horsemen took the Greek letters” route) along with Cyrillic. Yet according to the wiki Glagolitic emerged in the Tirfatsevid era, close to the Vaestic era (correct me if I am wrong). So… how?

The Lestrian Concern
Another thing was the East Asian Sprachbund in Lestria. Seeing that in earth the Indic cultures has some effect on the East Asians culturally and linguistically, there are scripts in east Asia that was highly influenced by Brahmic Scripts and probably based on it. Enter Hangul. Primarily it’s an alphabet where letters are grafted on syllable blocks. In Earth, it was invented by Sejong the great (constructed script?) as a way to end illiteracy in Korea. yet when looked closely, it has a Brahmic, particularly Tibetan influence (through the Mongol-Chinese-Tibetan Phags’Pa). And since the Brahmic scripts are from Ascesia (or I assume it is, seeing that west Ascesia, particularly the Dodaristan, Sabhian Region and Adorac uses Indo-Aryan languages gives the impression it uses Brahmic) and for scripts to be transferred to another region it should have an easy geographical access, the scenario should be altered or given a concrete explanation why (or just pretend it is not based on brahmic but on Chinese).

My first proposal is by using chinese characters (Hanja in Korean) instead of Hangul. As I remember, there are two ways to transcribe Korean in Chinese: Hyangchal and Ido . If it’s a hard one we could move on to the what I call the “Bakaya Scenario”: Seeing that the regions of 129 and environs are in a region where Bhramavada overlaps with Pyranism, these Bhrama-Pyranist nations would have trade with their Lestrian counterparts, primarily Paegil Cheguk. Probably through trade and transfer of ideas the script of southern Ascesia (prolly some kind of Brahmic, maybe Ranjana?) Reaches Baygil, then the sun emperor gets ideas from Ascesia script and lo, Pey!

Mapping the script's evolutions
Also, how can we map the move and evolution of these scripts? Seeing that the whole of Lestria, Ascesia (Brahmic) and Ereana uses scripts from the *North Semitic and instances of *Aramaic could be seen in the two sides of the civilized world (Dabaic in Azophin and *Devanagari to be used in Mahavishuri), It doesn't get easy as I see it (seeing that we also don't have a precise Ethnicity or even a Migration map). So I have a question: What Scripts are used in Arden? What are not? Obviously we all use Latin, but where did it come from and how did it move to what is now Savam all the way from *Proto-Sinaitic ? From the Antissans? But (seeing from the wiki) they use Cuneiform and there has been no instances even of Heiroglyphs in the wiki (which allows a vector for phonetic *Proto-Sinaitic). I figured the alphabet's origin should be in the Carcharian areas for *Proto-Sinaitic then spread through the *North Semitic branch (Aceso-Messeno Joriscian), first in much of petty Lestria. Then Aramaic evolved in Lestria again to create the Dabaic script for Rashimic and Brahmic for Ascesia. The Greek Script probably came to the areas where the Messenians originally came.

So... Yeah, it's probably incoherent again. So, what are your thoughts?

 
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Re: Writing in Arden

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:16 pm

This is all a long way from my areas of expertise, but I'll do my best to answer the questions you've raised.

I think - and I stand to be corrected - that the RL case of Cyrillic being derived from the Greek alphabet with a few additions is intended to be represented by the scattering of the Elmiesians from the Prasinian peninsula; many ended up in #39 and #40 (where they remain today), while others settled just south of the Severnistines in what is now the Translacunian region (in the Rastovid Confederacy). The process would have been helped along by the Secote willingness to adopt the Elmiesian script for their own purposes (I imagine that, as a mainly nomadic culture, their own need for much written documentation would have been less than for a comparable settled culture). The use of the name "Tomislavic" may only indicate that Tomislav of Agamar promoted its use or that it was named thus in his honour. (This is not settled at present, I think.) As to the Glagolitic script, I don't know enough about its RW origins to speculate how it emerged in Joriscia - Vince and Chris have made most use of it so far, and may have a backstory in place.

I know almost nothing about the development of the various East Asian scripts and syllabaries, and I note your descriptions with some interest. There is no reason to assume, though, that the multiplicity of Brahmic scripts are used in the "Indo-Aryan" sphere just because the languages themselves are. (It's possible, of course, but the question is still open. For my own part, I didn't use them in Yfirland because I don't understand them. And there may be alternatives, just as we have Agar (*Finnish) being written with the Cyrillic alphabet, or *Greek being written using *Georgian script.) I think your suggestions do have merit here, although I will happily admit that I need to think more about them before I figure out how to put them into play!

The use of cuneiform by the Antissans is probably a red herring here, in that its only confirmed use is in clay tablets dated to the 13th century BCE; by the time we get closer to the present, the successors to the Antissans may well have abandoned it. (Certainly, I'd expect that Liturgical Antissan within modern Siriash is written in the *Latin alphabet.) Broadly speaking, I can go along with your ideas as regards the emergence of the "Latin alphabet - through northern Lestria into Prasinia, where it becomes the *Greek alphabet, and on northward into the Sabamic lands to reach its modern form. More than that, though, I don't feel competent to speculate upon.

I hope this makes sense to you (most of it makes sense to me), and I certainly appreciate the thought you've put into this - this is perhaps like the part of the iceberg below the waterline, but it all helps make the whole edifice more supportable!

 
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Re: Writing in Arden

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:24 am


 
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:29 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Writing in Arden

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:01 am

Image

My idea.


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