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The Otherworld Project • View topic - It's time to get colonial

It's time to get colonial

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It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:01 am

As the title implies, I suppose we should start to take an interest in the colonial matters, now that all GPs are complete, or nearly so. I know some Joriscians have already discussed between themselves, but I suppose we should have a general conversion here first. How do we want to proceed?

 
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:01 am

I'm assuming that you're talking about the swathes of terra incognita in Lestria and terra nullius in the Seranias, not the 100-plus polities already marked out. (That's more influence rather than outright ownership :twisted: )

The whole claiming of territory thing got a bit messy first time up, and I'd feel happier if we could do more to co-ordinate the process with the colonies. Not all of us have been around much of late, it seems, and where a colonial empire is intrinsic to the set-up of the motherland, I wouldn't want the latecomers to feel aggrieved just because they were late back to the party. I've already included a comment in my own work that Helminthasse almost missed out on the process, and I'm perfectly content to keep my own claims small (if, indeed, I do anything at all), so I'd be willing to collate proposals if we as a group want to handle it that way.

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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:00 pm

I'm not calling for a landgrab, the process must indeed be coordinate and shared among the players. However, there's going to be some extend of claiming, it's inevitable. I can express interest at a region, and discuss it with other people, I don't see the problem with this way to do things; we just need to ensure there's no rush for land, or something like that. I suppose that there's no pre-drawn borders in parts of Lestria and all of the Seranias should help that.

Also, the colonial process should, by all means, not limit itself to unmarked lands. Ascesia and Lestria should also be afflicted by colonialism, albeit in different forms that in the Seranias. I discussed that with Vince earlier this week on MSN, and the picture he painted was that of a widespread influence by Jorisco-Messenian bodies over the native countries. That nationalism is different on Arden means that there's less reasons for natives to be opposed to control over their countries by foreigners, which means that the "westerners" would still have a major influence over these countries. We are not speaking, necessarily, of direct control. Rather, economic and cultural domination, with a control over some key systems that allow to perpetuate this influence: typically, as Vince mentioned, school systems. The Westerners would basically keep the natives' elite in their pockets by co-opting them culturally. Of course, it would not always work. Religion might provide a significant reason for opposition to western control. We discussed such a scenario for the big empire that exists in southern-central Ascesia (where Savam used to be located). Note that the "bodies" mentioned are not necessarily states. Colonial and trading corporation would be able to fulfill such roles (and likely should, so they'd be very rich and powerful, possibly even able to counter the weight of their own native country's government...)

Of course, all this is open to debate :)

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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Vince » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:57 pm

As far as territory in Serania goes, the mechanism that was discussed way back when was to indicate general areas of interest, which would then be centrally collated (probably by myself since I did the other political maps) into a provisional map that can be tweaked as necessary before being finalised. I don't see any reason not to go by this route, which I think precludes some of the objections that Michael has brought up about the initial "land-grab". Since some people are away or busy we might have to settle it to some extent without their immediate input, though I'm fairly sure the people for whom this will be important should all notionally be around (except possibly Lois).

On my part though I don't view Ascesia and Lestria as being integral priorities in this process in that they aren't things that need to be canonically fixed like Seranian territory, since they'll be fluid anyway.
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:08 pm


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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Vince » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:29 pm

It'd probably be a good idea to contact her for her approval as an administrator as well before getting started with this.
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:33 pm

I've done so.

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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:49 am

She said we can proceed with colonial issues, and that she will try to log in within the week (she's having some issues with her studies at the moment). Hopefully, she can have a say in the process. I'd be happy to help her insure SK gets a fair share out of the process if she's unavailable, though :)

So, let's do this... where should we start? ;)

 
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:24 am

I already have IG canonical reasons to hang back after everyone else; Helminthasse was not independent until 1812, and any colonies which Siurskeyti possessed would probably stay with the rump Siursk state, which has the seapower to develop and foster trade with them, for the same reasons as it holds Saemunsvar and the Median islands. I have one small claim in mind (to the south of #89 - I know the land already :D ) but will hold off until others have gone ahead.

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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:47 am


 
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:00 pm


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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:25 am


 
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:19 am

Okay, I'm in. Attached is a rough map of what I have in mind, with the yellow bit on the coast being controlled directly and the sand-coloured part inland is more a de jure claim. #89 is on the northern border. Given that this is in the *Turkic-speaking region, I was thinking in terms of the native language being something like *Uzbek (since I could find a respectable online resource for it).
Helmin-Lestria.png
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Alex » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:29 pm

Here's a very rough, provisional map of what will probably be the biggest chunk of Zeppengeran's holdings in Lestria. It is likely under the administration of a chartered consortium operating on the behalf of the Zepnish government. Other Zepnish colonial holdings in the continent are probably under the control of smaller charter companies or directly controlled by higher-tier machtbund corporations.

Image

Serania is likely a different story, but it'd be possible that the Zepnish government would directly control some of its own colonies there.
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:57 am

To put this into perspective, I estimated this as about 4.5 million km2 - that's more than Chad, Congo, Cameroun, the Central African Republic and Gabon (the former French Equatorial Africa) plus Nigeria put together. That's big - and an awful lot to be accessed from that short stretch on the "Prothenian" coast. (So you have an interest in fleshing out #80, the Holy Empire, and maybe #89 and #90 as well. Cool :D ) Theoretically, you could be dealing with separate colonies established by the component Bundesstaaten before federation - how much they remain under the states' control rather than the Bund itself would be an interesting question.

The thought occurs that you may be better treating any Seranian territories as playgrounds for the Machtbuende - no inconvenient natives to interfere with the bottom line. The individual economic zones (I hesitate to call them colonies in this context) could well be "contracted out" to the companies by the federal government through some kind of land grant arrangement - just make sure you have good security forces (not an "army") to hold onto them...

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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:31 pm


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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Sébastien » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:11 pm

Here's a draft map with potential holdings all over the world (orange dots and blobs) and the trade routes that go with them (yellow). The oblong shapes show where Savam would have actual colonies, as you see all of them in the Seranias or related islands; these would be population and resource colonies. The dots represent port-cities held directly by Savam à la Hong Kong. I imagine the one on the nordic island owned by Odann would have been taken as a result of the Gaste war. All these holdings are directly owned by the Savamese government, they are actual overseas territories (there's also the island in the Medius, but it's not a colony). Corporate colonisation is not extent in Lestria. Corporate colonisation would actually focus on Ascesia and controlling markets there, so this is not shown on the map. Typically, Savam would have a presence in 106 - because it's the biggest state and largest potential market, Vince and I agreed there would be a staunch competition to control the local elites there - and 108 in order to protect their port-city. I imagine other Messenian powers, especially the maritime one such as Odann and SK, would also have port-cities around that same location (the last step in Ascesia before sailing to Serania).

ColoniesPotential1.png
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:29 pm


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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Alex » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:49 pm

So here's my draft of Zeppengeran's possible colonial holdings, excluding possible autonomous corporate influence in *Ascesia. As I mentioned earlier, Zepnish Lestria is most likely directly administered by some kind of chartered consortium, with more emphasis placed on economic exploitation. As for *Serania Major, I imagine that there's a mix between state-sponsored settler colonization efforts along with corporate-backed resource extraction. I think some smaller colonies could exist in *Serania Minor, but seeing how it might be a stretch considering it'll probably be Jorisica's playground I was hesitant to give anything even give a rough approximation.

If Zep's colonial empire seems rather large, it's because I've taken into account that there was a considerable amount of time in which Habstwald's, Jaldland's, and to a lesser extent Ebenenburg's colonial empires developed separately, and that's taking into account any private ventures that might've originated from these countries.
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Re: It's time to get colonial

Postby Steven » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:25 am

I hope no one minds if I weigh in. Seb mentioned the northern island that I staked a claim on and that was the sole area I had a specific desire for. However, Odann being one of the Great Powers, it only makes sense for it to have some colonial possessions beyond mega-Greenland. I have some ideas, but nothing concrete at this stage, I will just share what I think for now.

I assume Odannach colonies would be concentrated in the southern ocean between Serania Major and Lestria. Areas I think might be interesting include that desert region and coastal areas in southeast Serania Major, the largest island directly to the east of that area, the large island in southeastern Lestria which Alex has partially claimed, and the southeastern portions of Lestria in general in the subarctic, grassland, and temperate areas directly east and south of what Alex outlined as areas of interest.

I am not suggesting I want or need all of these areas, but I think I could do some interesting things with one or more of them. If this competes with others areas of interest I would be happy to withdraw or discuss it.
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