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The Otherworld Project • View topic - 121 - Mahavishuri

121 - Mahavishuri

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121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:52 am

Status: Second Draft done.
Rehashed and edited.

Colored areas are either the ones I changed or added.




Do we have a more precise Ethnic map as such?
Last edited by Rajalyoko23 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

 
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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:09 am

bump

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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Welshy » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:03 pm

Syriac won't work here (except maybe in small isolated communities, I guess?) because Aramaic exists along with the other Semitic languages far away. I think Persian works but why are you sticking al- everywhere? I assume it's because you imagine that any language written with squiggly lines has to have al- in it to make it sound authentic but الـ is actually just 'the' in Arabic and Arabic is a long way away from Persian in this incarnation.

I'll give you some more feedback later. Sorry this has taken so long, we've all been hibernating.

 
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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:36 am


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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Welshy » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:06 pm


 
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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:52 am


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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Welshy » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:09 pm


 
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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:03 am

Will edit stuff.

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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Alex » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:28 am

[quote=Rajalyoko23]Anyway, I just felt down after reading these.[/quote]

The point of all this scrutiny isn't to make you feel bad, it's all done in good faith to ensure whatever comes out of the proposals is definitely sound enough to be canon.
Shouting terrible blasphemies towards the Prophet and reciting heretical formulae.

 
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Re: 129 - Sri Bakaya (Revised Version)

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:49 am

Rewrite on progress and third revision underway. Been busy back on school and Æternia. Still back anyway.

"Ambuja!"

 
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Re: 121 - Maha Vishuhari

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Mon May 26, 2014 11:53 am

I'm on a majestic restart. Discussion welcome.


 
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Re: 121 - Maha Vishuhari

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Thu May 29, 2014 6:46 am

>Tirshavy was made

That was an unprecedented turn of events for me.

And since Tirshavy is more civilized, 121 will be awesome!

>Is wanting it to have an Asian feel

 
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Re: 121 - Maha Vishuhari

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:43 am

Cooking up the app.

 
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Re: 121 - Maha Vishuhari

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:45 pm

FINALLY I AM DONE YES JAI SRI SATYADEV PRAISE AEDIF AN AN ASCENDED TIME IT IS INDEED.

Still a rough draft. Needs critics to rework and finalize before I submit this. The history is in reverse timeline because it makes me understand what I wrote more and makes what I write more consistent. I think.

My body is ready.



Neyet has no Asian swords. I get to use the katana!

Thank you based Ascesia

 
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Re: 121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Michael-on-Ryde » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:11 pm

I did see this late last night, Sydney time, but I felt it better to take the time to consider each step you’ve taken in some detail. If I repeat anything that we’ve already discussed here, it’s to inform the wider community who wouldn’t have been aware of what’s going on.

Languages: I admit I had to look up Pali – which Wikipedia tells me is the liturgical language of Theravada Buddhism – but its use in context here makes sense. I’m guessing that you intend *Hindi to be the language of the average man and keeping the others as used by the educated classes? Possibly Serovitic is as dead on Arden as Sanskrit is to us.

Ethnic composition: I don’t think I have enough context to comment on this beyond a guess that these are essentially tribal distinctions, if Sartanji is their common parlance. Some points of differentiation would be useful if you proceed further, for reasons I’ll come back to later.

Overview: The piece on the Sabhian Unity claims that the Unity was forgotten to such an extent that even the people who lived in its former capital didn’t know about it by the 1920s – so it’d be perhaps unlikely that the Vishuri would remember it any better; they may themselves think that they emerged fully formed like Athena from the brow of Zeus, and are only just learning the greater depth of their history (with the help of Messenian historiography). It’s maybe a bit presumptuous for Mahavishuri to claim succession from the Unity in any more than a cultural sense anyway – the heart of the Unity was in southern #117 – but I’d hope you can demonstrate how this works later. How much it constitutes a regional power goes back to the “tribal” split and how far this is sublimated in the interests of wider unity, although if it is the kind of trading centre you’ve envisaged, this might help it punch above its weight.

History: The end of the Unity was something I deliberately left open, but as stands it’s in the late 15th century, about 200 years before your proposed date (with Messenian traders expanding into the vacuum caused by its collapse), so you’d need to push the date back or fill in that gap somehow. We did talk about the idea of Bhramavadic monastics (which seemed natural enough given Bhramavada’s more contemplative nature). The “island-hopping” towards the south-eastern peninsula was referred to as being done tentatively under the Sabhians – presumably better shipbuilding techniques made this easier? The reference to trade in the late 18th “mainly in Voraey”, I’d guess, is an expansion of trade that would have been happening on a low level since Voraey was established (1462?).

The Messenian influence on Mahavishuri in the mid to late 19th C sounds similar to, say, Egypt under Mohammed Ali, which doesn’t seem infeasible to me. Sirian presence would bring missionaries without doubt; Cairans perhaps also (Arlaturi do not, and I’m glad you left them out here). But although I can see you want to play up antipathy with Yfirland – which I’ll return to – I’m not sure it flies as a reason for the intransigence in the 1900s; just the weight of influence of Messenian commercial “exploitation” is more than enough, surely.

Leaving aside Mahavishuri’s involvement in the Long War, the establishment of the Council of Truth makes sense – if there is a particularly weak monarch. If so, then the Council should surely not yield power back to the monarchy without a fight – potentially even leading to civil war. I know you’re keen on an “Asian” feel to the place, and recent developments in Thailand suggest themselves here.

Government structure: I’m not sure what you mean by a caste structure here, unless these three groups have superiority to the general masses. You do actually contradict yourself in that if “the sacaraja has total power over the whole kingdom”, then the dattva cannot be “granted full autonomy from the sacaraja’s rule” – although there’s arguably nothing to prevent a wily dattva, or the mantthan collectively, manipulating a weak sacaraja in best “power behind the throne” fashion. The reference to the dattvas having “the right to bring destruction on other dattvas”, even if the sacaraja must be in accord, does suggest that they are functionally kings in their own domain, with rights of high justice – again, inconsistent with an autocratic central ruler, I’d think.

Politics: “The Dāttvas and Sacarāja see each and every one of them as pawns to each other to be played” actually makes them much closer in spirit to the Yfirlanders than they probably admit. This kind of backstage jockeying for position does probably make for decidedly weak government and opens all sorts of opportunities for devious outlanders! But the reference to the Sacaraja’s “ability to massacre and/or destroy the Dattvas” is confusing if the Dattvas have the power to control him in some circumstances. Again, you either have an autocratic monarchy or you do not; it isn’t really a mix-and-match arrangement. What I think you’re saying is that the Sacaraja is supreme monarch with the Dattvas playing their internal political games to gain influence at court or divert the Sacaraja’s displeasure elsewhere when things go awry – please tell me if I’ve misunderstood.

Foreign relations: I can see why the Mahavishuri would have a hate on for Yfirland, but I suspect it’s a bit overdone as it stands. The base premise of Yfirland is a kind of cross between apartheid-era South Africa and an organised crime syndicate – certainly the hate wouldn’t be reciprocated; Yfirlanders would probably just hold Mahavishuri in contempt just like other “nonnar”. Arguably the relationship may be closer to, say, Rhodesia against the likes of Mozambique or Zambia in the apartheid era. (The Yfirland army would almost certainly have a hand in any internal conflicts in the region. I described them as “state-sponsored mercenaries” for just that reason. And if you want a hate figure, then Viljafost Lysu offers a much better and more recent target.) Certainly, they would be aware that Siurskeyti regards Yfirland with more distaste than almost anyone else (as a “perversion” of Arlaturi mores).

Would the Vishuri be astute enough to make a distinction between Orthodox Cairan Odann and Reform Cairan Savam? I’d doubt it – more likely that the Odannaigh have commercial reasons for being a problem there (as well as their looming presence on Diothun, which isn’t all that far away). I would presume also that you have something in mind to explain the recent good relations between the Vishuri and #120. And Mahavishuri may try to ignore the Ascesian Banner or pretend that it does not exist – but I suspect that the reverse is not true.

Cultural overview: I do feel that this is too optimistic a picture, particularly when combined with the multiplicity of ethnic groups which you mention elsewhere. Oh, I don’t deny that this is probably the impression that the Mahavishuri rulers want to present to the outside world, but – whether by accident or design – what you have seems very similar to the ut possideatur principle elsewhere in the continent where diverse groups are controlled (sometimes tenuously) by an overarching government. I’d expect to see some greater tensions here in practice. I do very much support the prominence of art in Vishuri culture as an expression of Bhramavada, and I agree that the faith lends itself to an expression of monasticism. (It also could support warlordism, of course – I referred to the “Mahish heresy” as a nod to Maugissism in the “old” Isealism – and that could be intriguing as well.)

All told, I think it hangs together a bit better than previously, although your logic is a bit weak in places and you may want to think through how the structures you’ve set up would work in practice. Doing so may actually help you build some of the country’s more detailed history, so it’s a worthwhile exercise in its own right as well as making Mahavishuri more believable as a concept, which is the name of the game here. Persevere!

 
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Re: 121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:34 pm

My body endured.
I noted the things and jotted it down my notebook and shiz, so I may edit this with some more branstorming.

On the monarchy thing:
While Michael's idea is closer to what I am trying to pull off, I guess it's based more on the plot of the Chinese movie "Red Cliff". There the minister and main villain, Cao Cao has successfully manipulated the Han emperor to wage war against the kingdoms of Wu and "the other place I forgot about the name" in order for Cao Cao to control the whole of China like a tyrant. I figured it would be the same as to the relationship between the Dāttva and the Sacarāja. After all, even the most powerful kings can be swayed. (Yeeeah, probably I took off too much. Probably a workout on the two ideas may suffice for now?)

Man, I was leaning on a feudal autocracy.

 
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Re: 121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:42 am


 
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Re: 121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:34 am


 
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Re: Ethnic Vishuri Groups initial distinctions

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:24 am

Vikaja - Agricultural, family based. Range spread out to the whole archipelago. Based on southern Chinese and Japanese.
Adhvojana - Semi-Nomadic culture, clan-based. Circular Architecture. Both in Nation 120 and Mahavishuri. Based on tibetans. Secote with Yaks. Their range was basically most of the Sabhian region. (Taken from Esh!Arden's Manyery)
Ludhaya - Mountain culture, extended family based. Deeply devout. Does the same farming methods like in Terophan (Terracing). Based on Koreans. Range is mainly the northern fringes of the central island.
Kejankhi - Coastal culture, family/extended family based. Same, based on the Japanese. Aquaculture as main source of income.
Balarika - Sea culture, family based. Based on the Malays/Japanese. Same roots as Kejankhi. Though they are more based on the ocean itself. Fishing as main source of income. Also they are good sailora.

That's the initial concept of the five cultures. Not much elaborated because writer's block. Probably I will do a more concise one once I got my ideas together.

 
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Re: 121 - Mahavishuri

Postby Rajalyoko23 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:10 pm

I'm free for the weekends and feeling a little classy today (after watching Chinese stuff) so here. Please tell me if I'm incoherent.

The Dāttva and the power of the Sacarāja

A Dāttva (from the Kejankhi Sartanji word Datawar, meaning Chieftain) is the highest and only form of nobility in Mahavishuri. In some respects it can be describing the whole clan the Chief is within, or the chieftain him/herself. With the title passed on to younger family members (only), these Dāttvas are the primal rulers of the local dominions of the Kingdom. They rule over a Vāntacca (Anthacca word for village/a large settlement), a considerable territory within the islands. Since a Dāttva can be allowed only one Vāntacca, the number of Vāntaccas based on the number of Dāttvas (totalling in 46, excluding the rebel council).

A Dāttva, as said back in my proposal, has total freedom over his dominion and may rule whatever in any way he/she wants. Even though, they live with the philosophy of the Vattā (Mahavattā), a code of conduct made by the Sacarāja to keep order within the kingdom. This Mahavattā changes Sacarāja to Sacarāja (Based on Parivartana) If any of the Mahavattā is violated by a Dāttva, the Sacarāja must deal with the matter directly and greatly. In attacking another dattvā with the right (or what according to the Dāttva is right) reasons, they are required to need the accord of the Sacarāja him/herself. If the Sacarāja denies it, the Dattvā must comply whatever the cost, for the consequences are great (Strippimg off privilege and wealth, execution or annihilation). One who does not comply, however shall he dealt with harshly and directly by the Sacarāja (though the Sacarāja himself has support of other Dāttvas, they will not participate in such.

Another thing: The Sacarājas and Dattvās are not allowed to harm each other.

Ashrasāccas: Regarding Bhramavadic Monasticism

In Bhramavada, particularly Vishuri Bhramavada, there is a belief that the material world may lead us to distractions that keep us from attaining Mahanasatya. The Vishuri Bhramavadi (some of them) believe that the four values (Saji Muyom) must all be done greatly and balanced, but the world keeps us from being so.

This puts us into the monasteries of Sabhian Bhramavada.

An Ashrasatya (School of Truth in Sartanji/Serovitic) is the primary center of religious guidance and education in northern Bhramavadi Ascesia (but not in a way like a Vaestic Mokykla). They are the center of contemplation and a place to hone the four values: satya, svikriti, srijana and parivartana.

Ashrasatyas can be in temples or be travelling around the land to impart wisdom of Greater Truth. These nomadic Ashrasatyas are more of "wandering hermits" and "missionaries" rolled into one. Some Ashrasatyas, like Mahapadma (the main Ashrasatya of Mahavishuri) developed into religious institutions in their own stead. These kinds were prevalent in the Sabhian era, especially during the Mishash heresy due to these Ashrasatyas being the stronghold of orthodox Bhramavada.

Each Ashrasatya follows a tradition or rite of the faith, primarily differing from one to another. For example: a Yfirlander Ashrasatya (which I doubt it would still have an actual one) differs from one in Vishuri. In this sense it sea to be comparable to a Cairan Argan, a Sirian House or a Vaestic Mokykla.

That's all for now, it's all I had in my head.

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